Freakonomics Radio

How to Be a Double Unicorn, with John Urschel | Better in Person

33 min

In this Freakonomics Radio bonus episode from the 'Better in Person' video show, Steven Dubner interviews John Urschel—a former NFL offensive lineman and MIT math professor—about his dual life in professional football and academia. Urschel discusses his unconventional path, the challenges of balancing NFL training with a PhD at MIT, his decision to retire early for his long-term health and math career, and his philosophical approach to both mathematics and football.

Summarized by Podsumo

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✨ Key Takeaways

1

John Urschel pursued two demanding careers simultaneously: playing in the NFL for the Baltimore Ravens while earning a PhD in mathematics at MIT.
2

He chose Penn State over Stanford due to his 'sense of honor' and commitment, prioritizing football over academic prestige at the time.
3

Urschel kept a math book in his car trunk during his NFL years, reading it in spare moments—even though teammates viewed it with suspicion.
4

His decision to retire from football was influenced by concerns about CTE (chronic traumatic encephalopathy) and his desire to walk and play with his kids at age 50.
5

He defines math broadly as 'a quantitative language we use to reason about problems,' and he demonstrated Cantor's diagonal argument to explain the concept of multiple infinities.
6

Urschel's perspective on his son potentially playing football: he would allow it if the child truly needed the 'controlled aggression,' but he would steer him toward wrestling or judo first.

💬 Notable Quotes

"[In the NFL], if I was reading a chess book, this is totally okay. If I'm reading a math book, it's a little dodgy."
"If football's the third most important thing to me, I need to retire and focus on math and go hang out with my kid."
"Math is some quantitative language that we all collectively have that we use to reason about problems."