Freakonomics Radio

How to Run an Institution in an Anti-Institution Era | Better in Person

38 min

In this episode, Steven Dubner hosts a conversation with Anne Pasternak (Director of the Brooklyn Museum) and Michael Roth (President of Wesleyan University) about the challenges of leading cultural and educational institutions in an era of low public trust. They discuss navigating political and social pressures, particularly after October 7, balancing principles with pragmatism, and the evolving roles of museums and universities as spaces for community and learning.

Summarized by Podsumo

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✨ Key Takeaways

1

Despite a general decline in trust in institutions, museums remain among the most trusted public institutions, according to recent surveys.
2

Both leaders emphasize the importance of engaging with diverse viewpoints, with Roth sharing a story of hosting Antonin Scalia to demonstrate the value of civil discourse with ideological opponents.
3

Pasternak reveals that the Brooklyn Museum uses a 'pay what you wish' model, which fosters economic diversity but also creates one of the smallest endowments among major museums.
4

Roth discusses using AI in education innovatively, such as an 'aggressive therapist AI' to help students reflect on virtue and vice, while preserving in-person, technology-free discussions.
5

Pasternak's husband gifted her a painting of a knocked-out boxer, symbolizing her resilience as a leader who keeps getting back up after challenges.

💬 Notable Quotes

"I think if you're a healthy person, yes. [...] You have to have some humility. You have to listen to the multitudes of viewpoints."
"I always joke that we have the worst business model and we're proud of it. Because it creates all this diversity within the institution, economic diversity, gender..."
"What changed my mind is how productive it could be to have someone who I thought was wrong, have to listen to him speak."